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Get Involved in Developing a New VJ software suite

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Hi,

I am a software Developer based in London England. I am beginning research on developing a VJ suite . The emphasis will be on user experience and usability, I am looking for people to get involved on the research side of things. I basically want an insight into the processes used, the software you already use, what you like/dislike about it, what additional feature sets you would like to see implemented etc. I would also be looking for people to test prototypes and eventual beta testing.

If you are interested in getting involved please email me on:

Jon_Parsons67@hotmail.com

Cheers
Jon
nice one

what technology you want to use? MAX/MSP?

in my opinion Resolume Avenue has one of the best interfaces around, but the issue is its not modular.
A lot of people are using modul8, VDMX is popular as well for people who are more geeks than designers.

I think the easiest way for you to work is just attend to one of our meetings when you can share your ideas and see the feedback
I gonna be using flash as3.0 to do the majority of the work, I think with the new H.264 decoding possibilities and the release of flash "Square" which has 64bit support there's allot of room to develop something that has excellent performance. Flex also provides many opportunities for rapid prototype development and its where I feel most at home :)

So far I've found out that clip navigation is an important factor. I think that this is a great area for development, and id would like to implement some kind of adaptive interface which allows the user to search the file system for clips and narrows the results as you type in more of the search term. Obviously this is a technique being employed on the web more and more with AJAX technology. Do you think that this, with the combination of Decks of clips would provide a more usable system (obviously deck based storage is used allot already)?

a couple of thoughts on features so far have been:

Reactive Filters:
Allowing filter parameters to be adjusted based on the volume level of certain frequency bands: i.e. a blur filter of which the blur increases with the bass (I'm not sure as to whether something like this has already been implemented on a system).

Modular Filter racks:
Allowing the user to build modules which can combine filters in parallel or series to create interesting effects.

Intelligent Interface:
Some kind of adaptive control which provides easy access to the most commonly used commands (although I am concerned that this will lead the user into repeating the same tasks over and over which isn't conducive to creative experimentation).

Automation:
I'm not sure if this is employed already on allot of systems but in music production you can easily automate effect parameters visually through the timeline, do you think this would be useful?

These are just some of my thoughts, I come from a photography/graphic design/music background but over the last few years my bread and butter has been application/web design. I am not a VJ so any help you could provide would be much appreciated. I want to provide a tool which is free/open source which really allows the user to focus on getting creative. I'm also really interested in how system usability influences the creative process so this is what will drive the majority of my research and testing.

Cheers,
Jon
As neon said your best bet is to come to a vj meeting to meet your intended target.
To be honest most of the points you mention already exist in most vj software but if as you say your focus is on usability there's a lot of ground to break.

Join the vj london facebook group for updates on future vj meets.
I gonna be using flash as3.0 to do the majority of the work, I think with the new H.264 decoding possibilities and the release of flash "Square" which has 64bit support there's allot of room to develop something that has excellent performance. Flex also provides many opportunities for rapid prototype development and its where I feel most at home :)

So far I've found out that clip navigation is an important factor. I think that this is a great area for development, and id would like to implement some kind of adaptive interface which allows the user to search the file system for clips and narrows the results as you type in more of the search term. Obviously this is a technique being employed on the web more and more with AJAX technology. Do you think that this, with the combination of Decks of clips would provide a more usable system (obviously deck based storage is used allot already)?

a couple of thoughts on features so far have been:

Reactive Filters:
Allowing filter parameters to be adjusted based on the volume level of certain frequency bands: i.e. a blur filter of which the blur increases with the bass (I'm not sure as to whether something like this has already been implemented on a system).

Modular Filter racks:
Allowing the user to build modules which can combine filters in parallel or series to create interesting effects.

Intelligent Interface:
Some kind of adaptive control which provides easy access to the most commonly used commands (although I am concerned that this will lead the user into repeating the same tasks over and over which isn't conducive to creative experimentation).

Automation:
I'm not sure if this is employed already on allot of systems but in music production you can easily automate effect parameters visually through the timeline, do you think this would be useful?

These are just some of my thoughts, I come from a photography/graphic design/music background but over the last few years my bread and butter has been application/web design. I am not a VJ so any help you could provide would be much appreciated. I want to provide a tool which is free/open source which really allows the user to focus on getting creative. I'm also really interested in how system usability influences the creative process so this is what will drive the majority of my research and testing.

Cheers,
Jon


Hi Pastey

hmm that's kind of really big goal ;)

first of all, before you start checkout existing flash mixers:

http://flxer.net
http://www.onyx-vj.com/
http://flashmixer.de

there are as well some projects which are not public like:
http://flashmixer.de/
Coo by Lukas Vojir

and mutevj which seems to be abandoned
http://www.mutevj.com/ (site is down)

as I understood you plan to develop it as a stand-alone flash application, so the first biggest problem which you gonna approach is performance. Forget HD resolution - try to chroma mix two clips with blur on them and you will understand why, I don't think that "square" will solve something, unless they will introduce proper openGL hardware support (which they will not as far as I know).

second problem is: midi / osc / external communication - getting this done is pain in the ass, as the only way to receive those signals is to use sockets, and that means you have to setup socket server. Not the most straight forward way to work.

third problem: microphone (reactive filters) - most of vjs don't really use it as it's not reliable, but anyway in flash you cannot use computespectrum on this object, only activitylevel, which actually is mystery what really states for. So I'm not sure if you can extract frequency bands from it.

fourth problerm is: forget freeframe support

and so on so on...

my overall point is:
your ideas of usability and focusing on interface are really interesting, however...

...getting vj software done in as3 is not an easy task, as flash platform has a lot of limitations. Because of those limits flash based mixers are not widely used.

if you are still up to do it (fingers crossed), good luck and come along to the meeting to get the feedback to your ideas - usually there is plenty of developers around.
Hi,

Yea . . . big, big, goal but you have to set your sights high right? :)

I had already checked out Onyx-VJ and Flxer which look really cool. Especially looking at the onyx code, it was a real good place to start

I tried your suggested experiment . . . i take your point, play back was abysmal :( but I thought considering you can have five layers in Onyx there has to be a way . . . im still working my way through reams of code! Although i emailed Daniel (from Onyx) and he suggested perhaps using an AIR interface wrapper and a c++ engine which is something i will begin looking into.

re: the flash microphone data, it can now be accessed as of player v 10.1 and then pushed into a sound object via a sample data event so reactive filters can be achieved but that is now very much besides the point :)

usability wise, there was a suggestion of supporting an adaptive search mechanism with tags which would improve/speed up file system navigation do you think that this would be a useful feature?
Hi,

Yea . . . big, big, goal but you have to set your sights high right? :)

I had already checked out Onyx-VJ and Flxer which look really cool. Especially looking at the onyx code, it was a real good place to start

I tried your suggested experiment . . . i take your point, play back was abysmal :( but I thought considering you can have five layers in Onyx there has to be a way . . . im still working my way through reams of code! Although i emailed Daniel (from Onyx) and he suggested perhaps using an AIR interface wrapper and a c++ engine which is something i will begin looking into.

re: the flash microphone data, it can now be accessed as of player v 10.1 and then pushed into a sound object via a sample data event so reactive filters can be achieved but that is now very much besides the point :)

usability wise, there was a suggestion of supporting an adaptive search mechanism with tags which would improve/speed up file system navigation do you think that this would be a useful feature?


Performance issue is something which will be really hard to handle, sorry that after my suggestion that kind of things happened...
c++ definitly will make sense then, but then it's not pure as3 anymore ;)

microphone -> You are right, I used to work with this feature long time ago...

usability wise this mechanism which You described is really cool and actually should already be implemented in vj-software.

good luck
Hi Pastey
Write software that allows VJ to search for youtube clips and play their streams on layers (looping?) - that would rock the place.
Hi Pastey
Write software that allows VJ to search for youtube clips and play their streams on layers (looping?) - that would rock the place.


I agree, this makes sense and would be competitive to other programs available, it could even reach youtube community as tool for remixing and give you a lot of fame and respect ;)

...then probably it needs to works with the sound as well.
Wasn't there a guy who presented just that at LPM this year??
Wasn't there a guy who presented just that at LPM this year??


yup, but he done it as a Resolume Avenue used as host software to mix which is slightly different stuff.

as well you didn't have really possibility to look for specific content - youtube clips were described by id.

http://ericmedine.com/tute_youtube_mixer.htm
yea ive been having some great fun with the youtube api! it is most excellent!

I agree that it would be great to be able to search and load clips from youtube on the fly. However the issue of performance keeps raising its head :(

unfortunately adobe havnt opened up the video components like they have the sound ones. You cant get to the byte data and push it back into a video object which would allow for lightning fast processing :( :(

despite this i am still determined to find a solution, i found this awesome piece of inspiration:

http://blog.soulwire.co.uk/laboratory/flash/actionscript3-dynamic-sound-visualisation

which shows the potential to create something really unique especially as those animations could be controlled with the microphone data

Pastey
yea ive been having some great fun with the youtube api! it is most excellent!

I agree that it would be great to be able to search and load clips from youtube on the fly. However the issue of performance keeps raising its head :(

unfortunately adobe havnt opened up the video components like they have the sound ones. You cant get to the byte data and push it back into a video object which would allow for lightning fast processing :( :(

despite this i am still determined to find a solution, i found this awesome piece of inspiration:

http://blog.soulwire.co.uk/laboratory/flash/actionscript3-dynamic-sound-visualisation

which shows the potential to create something really unique especially as those animations could be controlled with the microphone data

Pastey


Pastey, the direct access to video component in my opinion will not help at all with performance issue, as High Resolution problems are common in flash. To make everything snappy you have to be very aware how flash works internally with DisplayObjects. In case of video-components You have to get over it, and just limit resolution and features to still make it worth.

What I would do if I were you first of all look at pixelbender as effect-module: http://www.blastanova.com/blog/2010/03/24/pixel-bender-speed-tests/

...and I would still consider youtube option, as this probably something which is most promising - youtube clips usually have lower internal resolution than hd as well...

regarding to your link there is plenty of this-kind-of-stuff around:

http://lukesh.com/files/Vis1/VisualizerExperiment1.html
http://mrdoob.com/lab/actionscript/av/saville/
http://content.madvertices.com/expirements/18-SoundVisualizer/

...and so on, nothing new, nothing worth attention in my opinion - just rediscovering winamp avs with different technology
Youtube mixing: thought this might be interesting for you.
http://gieskes.nl/browserjockey/youtube-tracker/
cool idea
Hi, are you still working on this project?

Few ideas

Control
Midi OSC and DMX control inputs and outputs on multiple universes.

MSEX protocol - Media thumbs - http://www.citp-protocol.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4

Syphon - http://syphon.v002.info/

Video Mapping - Multi projector video mapping. Every VJ loves a bit of video mapping even if is is time consuming to set up :o)

Sorry about this next bit :(

Be careful with using youtube videos at public events, license, copyright, issues...
Just because youtube broadcasts to the public doesn't automatically give you a licence to re-broadcast it.
Also if someone uploads a copyrighted video clip to youtube and they don't own the copyright, and you use it, you are still liable. Its up to you to make sure you have all the corrected licences in place.
The problem here is youtube could come back and bite you one day.
We all have seen our work on youtube that has been uploaded by someone at the event. That's all the evidence copyright owners or licensing authorities needs.

As we only want to to play remote video content we have permission to use in our homes to practice with would it be possible to automate the download and convert to a more vj friendly format?
Hi,
I have been developping Onyx-VJ extensions for 2 years:
-adapting youtube code from Eric Medine I met in LPM Roma...
-videopong integration
-generative art

You can test Onyx in a browser too: https://www.videopong.net/onyx/

Onyx-VJ code is great and I learn a lot from it.