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Bar sequence - Angel

Forum / Venues

Spotted this, might of been seen already but maybe useful for some of you guys. Sounds like a perfect place for VJ meets. Bit of a lame policy with the music though..

http://www.gumtree.com/london/29/37748229.html

Dj Vj Promoter wanted cocktail bar in Angel, London Islington
Date posted: Saturday 18th April | Ad viewed: 12 times

We are looking for DJ, VJ and Promoters to help organize events at our venue, and bring unoffensive crowd for partying.

We have a 75 capacity cocktail bar in Angel (short walking distance from Angel tube), with an state of the art audiovisual system, allowing DJs and VJs to hold a unique event.

Our music policy is electro/funky house, and we offer flexible terms for use of the venue. Music such as hard house, hip-hop, hardcore, drum and bass and jungle will not work

If you are interested please respond with:

- your name
- contact number
- your music policy
- details of your promotion idea.
This ad is almost certainly for Bar Sequence (34 Essex Road). I played there last night with ZeeZee.

See thread Open deck for DJs and VJs every Wednesday for first impressions (on Wednesday). Writeup for last night to come.

Deal mentioned so far for artists/performers is not realistic. I think we should revisit the subject of reasonable rates, work-for-no-pay "trials", etc.

ZeeZee and I came with friends and industry (DJ / VJ / promoter) contacts and so far we're not impressed.

Current recommendation: go and have a look, but don't agree to anything on site.
From what I've read so far it does sound like a good option for the vj meets, plus this might work as a potential business pitch too as they can see the vjs' work first hand. If they've set up that many projectors they're going to want and need vj's so I'm sure that they will open to negotiation at some point.
Before we arrived on Saturday, ZeeZee and I thought we would be splitting the time with another VJ. I discussed with ZeeZee that my intention was to give the club 2 hours without charge, and ZeeZee could cover another hour.

When we arrived and started to discuss with Aria that (for example) I viewed this as unpaid work (unlike the photographer exhibiting there who gets free gallery space), and pointed to an example of another gig at Ł50 for two hours, he said that DJs weren't getting paid and he had canceled the other VJ. Based on the "agreement" made on Wednesday we were obliged to (or made to feel obliged to) play til close (expected up to 3am, or about 6 hours).

I wasn't very happy about that, but, remaining polite, asked if we could in that case at least have a couple of drinks or something, which Aria immediately negotiated (or rather just stated without inviting negotiation) down to one drink each.

On Wednesday we were asked questions about promoting through connections we have, and on Saturday while the gig was on I was asked about getting in people to do workshops and so on, so it is pretty clear that they are looking for ways to bring in both artists and paying customers.

At close, Aria said he was happy with what we'd done (though he did also complain about a couple of glitches) and said he'd like to "work with us" again, next time paid.

The "business model" discussed then (I enjoined Nebulus to the discussion), apparently only just formed, is:

1. VJs come to Open Decks night (Wednesday)
2. If they like you, come back for a "trial" (ie unpaid) gig to see if your visuals work well with a crowd.
3. If the "trial" is successful, following gigs paid at Ł50 per night.

That is, he expects all VJs/artists to give a free night.

We pressed him with a few questions (Q&A paraphrased):

Q: How much do you pay the bar staff?
A: Can't tell you. (Additonally, they are mixologists, not just bartenders.)

Q: How much do you pay the DJs?
A: Can't tell you.

He cited an example of himself DJing at Zigfrid (von Underbelly) in Hoxton, and said he was paid Ł120 for a night, so already he's saying he wants to pay less than half (and that's not even taking into account the "trial") what he would accept himself.

Note that he'd earlier told us the DJs weren't paid; we asked the DJs themselves who said they were paid.

We're also skeptical about his story that he canceled "the other VJ", and conversely that if he had done that it was bad news at short notice for whoever that was. If that person was you, please contact me to let us know what happened (subpixel@subpixels.com).

We invited a number of friends and industry contacts to the night, so have already put money in his pocket and given him exposure, and, given that the bar clearly needs new business, don't think Aria is treating his new contacts very well. We don't appreciate being lied to for a start.

I've played enough free / low paid gigs to know when I'm being screwed, and ZeeZee, although new to VJing, has put on parties herself, so can see the same from the other side of the fence. Nebulus mentioned he knows people who could potentially put on a proper multiscreen show, and the offer still sits at Ł50 for the night... not even worth bringing the equipment. Given that the bar's thing is the video/visuals/art angle (there is no other lighting system), he's not given much thought about who is going to fill all those screens.

Having said that, this is so far an initial verbal offer that we assume Aria hopes people will accept, hence the advice against agreeing to anything face-to-face. If he wants me to come back he's going to have to give me an offer in writing, and it's going to have to be good enough to make up for Saturday as well.

-spxl


Technical Details

The video is fed through an 8x8 Kramer matrix switcher where any and all of 8 inputs can feed to any and all of 8 outputs.

Inputs
1. Video Mixer
2. DVD
3. Bar PC
4. DJ/VJ 1
5. DJ/VJ 2
6. VGA Dance Floor
7. VGA BAR
8. VGA Front

I've seen inputs 3, 4 and 5, and next to 4 & 5 is another "Video In" with what looks like S-Video, composite and component inputs

Outputs
The 8 outputs are the seven projectors in order from the left of the DJ/VJ booth (looking from the bar/dancefloor) around the bar to the front of the bar and channel 8 is a VJ output (VGA connector next to the VJ1 & VJ2 inputs).

I don't know what the projectors are but they are very bright (for the space) and have nice colour and contrast. Aria came to complain that people might think the bar was closing when some video played at 100% (that is, when the filter layer used to reduce the output brightness was accidentally removed).

Layout
Simplified diagram below showing projector location and beam direction (> left, < right).

----------------------
== Essex Rd ===
----------------------
| . . . . . . |
| >6 . 7< | (in3)
| . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . |
| >5 bar |
| . . . bar |
| . . . bar |
| >4 bar |
| . . . bar |
| . . . |
| >3 |
| . . . |
| . . . . . . |
| >2 . 1< | toilet
| . . . . . . |
|decks|. . . |
|. DJ ./____|
|*VJ /
===

The place marked * has VGA inputs 4 & 5, video inputs and VGA monitor output (channel 8). I didn't notice the location of input 6 (VGA dance floor).

As the diagram indicates, the space for the VJ is in the booth behind the DJ. There is enough space to stand (rules on the booth door say 2 people at a time maximum, though practice shows 5 can fit, if not comfortably). There is bench space and some shelf space. Under the bench is the amp (which will keep you rather warm). There are two deep shelves, the top shelf will probably usually host bags, jackets, etc. The lower shelf (about a hand span beneath the upper shelf) has four power sockets at the rear.

There is one obvious disaster: the VJ space is facing the back wall of the venue. View of the screen(s) is past the DJ, and you are totally disconnected from the rest of the venue. To view the output I had my laptop half hanging off the edge of the bench with my back to the left wall (as facing the front of the club) to view projector #1. It seems Aria has the intention to put a monitor on the back wall which could be helpful, but you might as well be in another room. Personally, I'd rather see the actual output.

There is no chance of being confused for the DJ as no-one can see you, and it didn't feel to me like I was at a party. Greeting and talking to friends who came along was difficult, as standing at the edge of the booth meant obstructing the DJ, so I basically spent most of the night standing in the corner on my own and another hour or so cramped in the corner assisting ZeeZee.

Audio
Mostly unknown. Probably not geared for massively loud (it is only a small cocktail bar, after all), but sounds quite alright. All the audio is passed through what Aria called a "sound web". There is a control terminal at the bar which he can use to reel in the DJ's desire for more volume. This is probably a good idea, though I noticed on one of my few visits to the dancefloor that the music wasn't loud enough to give it feeling (and I usually complain when I think the music is too loud).

I didn't pay much attention to the DJ gear, but there are two turntables (I think they are Technics), two CDJs (Pioneer) and a cradle in the middle for a laptop. It looks like the mixer is 5 channels, but other than that I didn't notice (sorry audio people).
He should be paying up front for any work anyone here does.

I was not impressed with his attitude when speaking to him, on Saturday, he seemingly thinks VJing should effectively be free, exemplified by his reaction to the opportunity to have a full multichannel setup running across 5 projectors still his reply was Ł50 for the evening which is a joke.

Been talking to other VJ's this evening perhaps we should form a union to protect ourselves and help advise others when dealing with these people...

I'm in, anyone else ;)
Suggestion to rename thread: Bar Sequence - Angel
Music policy is in the electro/house area, and I was asked before being allowed to put on visuals if they contain (essentially) offensive content. Nudity, strong (anti?-)religious themes, etc, are not welcome.


I think if someone is not paying you for your visuals he shouldn't give any limitations like that.
Before we arrived on Saturday, ZeeZee and I thought we would be splitting the time with another VJ. I discussed with ZeeZee that my intention was to give the club 2 hours without charge, and ZeeZee could cover another hour.

When we arrived and started to discuss with Aria that (for example) I viewed this as unpaid work (unlike the photographer exhibiting there who gets free gallery space), and pointed to an example of another gig at Ł50 for two hours, he said that DJs weren't getting paid and he had canceled the other VJ. Based on the "agreement" made on Wednesday we were obliged to (or made to feel obliged to) play til close (expected up to 3am, or about 6 hours).


I am a little confused here.

Let me get this straight after an open mic night you offered to do a free gig on Saturday and now you complaining here that you didn't get any money.

[quote="bar sequence"]Music policy is in the electro/house area, and I was asked before being allowed to put on visuals if they contain (essentially) offensive content. Nudity, strong (anti?-)religious themes, etc, are not welcome.


I think if someone is not paying you for your visuals he shouldn't give any limitations like that.[/quote]

Why would you want to play offensive content?
Surely the owner has the right to choose roughly what content is being played unpaid or not.
I am a little confused here.

Let me get this straight after an open mic night you offered to do a free gig on Saturday and now you complaining here that you didn't get any money.

You may view my post as a complaint; I intend it as an indirect negotiation in the interests of any and all artists who might perform at the venue in future.

To clear your confusion, ZeeZee and I did not offer to do a free 6 hour gig. On Wednesday we were asked to come back on Saturday to share with another VJ. I'd said that I'd get back to him about it the next day. ZeeZee, myself and another VJ stayed for a drink and a chat and before we left Aria asked again about it, at which point I said okay. From my point of view that was a concession to get ZeeZee some live experience by only giving away a couple of hours of my own.

On Saturday, after we arrived at the venue, Aria fast-talked his way into more than what we thought we'd agreed to, including by (we believe) lying about canceling another VJ for us to play and lying about the DJs not being paid. We had a choice at that point to say no and abandon the gig (either at the start or part way through), which would make us look bad for his doing the wrong thing, or to press on despite both of our misgivings about the way he was treating the situation.

If you speak with Aria for 5 minutes you might quickly learn why I suggest not to "agree" to anything when you meet him without it being clearly defined and you having some time to consider it. He obviously sees the negotiation as a one-dimensional face-to-face verbal argument, and in that dimension I'd say he's pretty strong and really not worth butting heads against. Fortunately this reality consists of more than one dimension, and I choose to step aside from that freight train and try another angle. If you choose to pressure people and treat them unfairly, why should they be happy with that? I'm not.

Additionally, don't underestimate what we view as his expectation from us - not just a few hours performance, but access to our contacts and resources which he obviously didn't have himself. To grease those wheels (and essentially demand an unexpected 3 hours unpaid performance) he begrudgingly allowed 2 drinks out of his expenses budget. I'm telling you what happened. If you don't want to heed the warning, that is your option.

-spxl

[quote="neon"][quote="bar sequence"]Music policy is in the electro/house area, and I was asked before being allowed to put on visuals if they contain (essentially) offensive content. Nudity, strong (anti?-)religious themes, etc, are not welcome.


I think if someone is not paying you for your visuals he shouldn't give any limitations like that.[/quote]

Why would you want to play offensive content?[/quote]
because I like :?: :lol:

Surely the owner has the right to choose roughly what content is being played unpaid or not.


...so let he use dvd instead, if he know exactly what he want and what's offensive and what's not. I don't play offensive content at all, but I don't like censorship, especially when I'm suppose to do somebody a favour. According to Subpixel description this club looks like a typical commercial venue, so: bring your gear, play your visuals, but only eyecandies to make our fancy-fashion-dressed-clients happy, have your two drinks and get lost, next one from gumtree please... however I haven't been there - I'm not convinced so far.
If you don't want to heed the warning, that is your option.


I have no intention of taking him up on the 'offer'. I was just a little confused as I heard that this was a shit place to VJ as the owner was an arse and wanted to find out more of the reason why on these forums.

It sounds like a lot of this could have been avoided if there was some communication beforehand. Were you VJing early(9-12) or late(12-3)?

Lets presume early? Simply stating that cannot play past 12 beforehand e.g. you might have another gig lined up for later and you have to leave at 12 I do not consider unprofessional.

I know it is common for VJs to be press ganged into to doing more, cheaper, etc sometimes it is better to just say no.

Now about the pay, did you really think it would be a lot? I think I know the size of the venue from the descriptions here and I think walked past it on Saturday lunchtime (not knowing anything about this being a venue for VJs).

I don't know if there was much of/any door entry. But they cannot be making much.

I would immediate look at size of the venue and know they cannot afford me. You may get a token payment like was offered eventually but for a long term engagement it is not likely to be a moneyspinner. I am surprised anyone would think it is. Seriously what did you expect as payment in a small bar? Please let me know I am curious.

Those that know me know I am firm supporter of VJs being paid properly but it has to logical to the venue. A more realistic is the amount of people you are playing to as the venue/night will get more takings, obviously overheads are higher but they can afford more. I always like to see some sort of formula like a small percentage of the potential door take as a basis of a fee. I think this is more realistic. And that doesn't add up for small bars as a small percentage take on a tiny amount is not very much.

Anyway the owner sounded like an idiot and the only thing I did like is the fact that he noticed your mistake/glitches it at least shows something of an interest in visuals. Most owners/promoters wouldn't give a shit.


...so let he use dvd instead, if he know exactly what he want and what's offensive and what's not. I don't play offensive content at all, but I don't like censorship, especially when I'm suppose to do somebody a favour. According to Subpixel description this club looks like a typical commercial venue, so: bring your gear, play your visuals, but only eyecandies to make our fancy-fashion-dressed-clients happy, have your two drinks and get lost, next one from gumtree please... however I haven't been there - I'm not convinced so far.


One thing I think that lets VJs down in general is the lack of censorship. I have been to venues where promoters have had legitimate concerns about what I will play as the last 'VJ' started putting up porn in the shows and he had complaints and therefore he didn't want to employ any VJs.

As a punter I don't want to see offensive content.

Personally I have been offended at visuals of people being killed, disasters, terrorist acts, etc being played.

I don't like it when VJs see any screen time as they own party political broadcast.

I am sure many gigs have been lost long term because promoters do not want VJs now as a VJ in the past played offensive/controversial content.

You are there to work with the venue paid or not.
To be professional about it if your content does contain potential offensive material e.g. nudity, violence, etc explain this beforehand to the promoter. Show them sample clips, etc.

This way there is no confusion.

[quote="neon"]
...so let he use dvd instead, if he know exactly what he want and what's offensive and what's not. I don't play offensive content at all, but I don't like censorship, especially when I'm suppose to do somebody a favour. According to Subpixel description this club looks like a typical commercial venue, so: bring your gear, play your visuals, but only eyecandies to make our fancy-fashion-dressed-clients happy, have your two drinks and get lost, next one from gumtree please... however I haven't been there - I'm not convinced so far.


One thing I think that lets VJs down in general is the lack of censorship. I have been to venues where promoters have had legitimate concerns about what I will play as the last 'VJ' started putting up porn in the shows and he had complaints and therefore he didn't want to employ any VJs.

As a punter I don't want to see offensive content.

Personally I have been offended at visuals of people being killed, disasters, terrorist acts, etc being played.

I don't like it when VJs see any screen time as they own party political broadcast.

I am sure many gigs have been lost long term because promoters do not want VJs now as a VJ in the past played offensive/controversial content.

You are there to work with the venue paid or not.
To be professional about it if your content does contain potential offensive material e.g. nudity, violence, etc explain this beforehand to the promoter. Show them sample clips, etc.

This way there is no confusion.[/quote]

I value your opinion, but totally disagree ;)

How about the music lyrics?



...is this offending or not? Do DJ's have this kind of question when they start to play their tunes?

How about use the drug-related content in vjing - most of serious party people do it anyway? Is clip with hamburger offending or not (are you a vegatarian, how about dead animals)? How about the footage from G20 protests?

Mate, let's be serious - "offend someone" it's totally not clear. I feel personally offended with the clips without any meaning which makes watching visuals boring after 5 minutes ;)
Apologies for the defensive tone; my dissatisfaction is with Bar Sequence, not with you.

I don't expect to be making loads of cash from a small gig at all. Similarly, I don't particularly personally ripped off playing a free gig if the other artists aren't getting paid either (though tend towards thinking that the venues, or surrogate "land owners", in many cases are bleeding off anyone who works for them without pay). The issue is mainly about the attitude, blatant lying, manipulation, guilt-tripping and the aggressive "bargaining" tactics, especially since they were asking for more than just the hours of work. If you want to talk dollars (or pounds), the expectation here is Ł50 for 12 hours of performance - or maybe zero for 6 hours - with the overall rate improving slightly for a third or subsequent night (though one might suppose the rate could increase by negotiation dependent on bar revenue).

Aria has built a bar around (or inside) a bunch of screens. In my opinion it is overcapitalised (projector-wise), as a75-person capacity is probably not not going to be enough to pay for a fantabulous whizz-bang show, besides which such a show would likely be wasted in the venue since it doesn't have good viewing dimensions (all the screens are on the side walls of a narrow bar).

Of course, like any venue, there is potential somewhere, but I think it will be more art-based (where artists get beneficial free/cheap gallery space) than club/party-visuals based (where the VJ will most likely be underpaid).

On the separate issue of non-offensive content, I can respect both points of view, and my point of view is aligned with that of Rovastar. I mentioned it as it is a request/requirement of the venue, and I happen to think it is entirely reasonable, and much the same as having a music policy (and similarly a door policy). It's not the kind of place where you want/expect porn, gratuitous violence or explicit drug use (or indeed to see any of these things).

I was caught a little off-guard by the question, so mentioned it here as I expect others could run in to trouble with this requirement. I played some of my own footage from the G20 Climate Camp at a party in Dalston a few days after the event where it was perfectly acceptable, and in the past I've been caught by not having sex/love/relationship content for a different kind of party altogether. C'est la vie!
Don't get me wrong - all is about that if you do someone a favour he shouldn't complain and make rules what's allowed what's not.

For sure there are places more or less suitable for each type of content, but it's up to you to decide what will fit where :wink:
I suggest we change the title to

Bar owner in business-like approach to running business shock!
George, Lets see if I get this right: We welcomed you to our bar on an open deck night, invited you to our Sat party, offered you to stay as long as you wished, made it clear that there was no budget for a VJ and asked you at least 3 times if you were happy to stay, and you confirmed “yes”. I even treated you to a free drink.

In return you write pages of accusations, twisted facts, unkind comments and insults, and you are actually upset why I didn’t fill your pocket with cash, and why I didn’t disclose my company’s financial information and how much I pay my staff so you could publish it on the internet?!? We didn’t run a job fair, you attended an “Open Deck” night!!! Even on Sat you made several substantial errors with your visuals, but we tolerated it because we didn’t want to discourage Liz playing her first gig.

The vision behind our bar is not about making you rich my friend. I love playing electro tunes, and my partner loves doing visuals. We set the place up so we can share that experience with others. The reason we started the open deck nights on Wednesdays, was to give other artists also a chance to come and play on a decent system. By the sound of it, that vision already worked for your friend Liz as she played to a crowd on Saturday for the first time! We didn’t cancel a mystery artist, my partner was supposed to VJ that night, but she agreed to step down and give you guys a chance. Seems the kindness has backfired!

The alleged Ł50 offer was initiated by yourself, when you asked me: “if we return the next time and do a night here, will you pay us Ł50?”! Otherwise we don’t really need to hire DJs and VJs as we are a small venue without a door charge, and my partner and I can do our own music and visuals.

In how many venues can you enter with your laptop and have free access to play with the equipment like we do on our open deck nights?

In how many venues can you actually talk to the owner? And now I can see why other owners don’t talk to artists perhaps because they don’t want to deal with hassles like this. If you recall, I held several conversations with you on Sat, and I even stepped out of the bar in the middle of our closing procedure at 3.30 am to speak to you. If I hadn’t shown that courtesy to you, then you could not have twisted my words and posted any of these nonsense.

So what should I do? Assume that your behaviour is representative of the whole VJ community? Cancel the open deck nights and close my doors to all VJs? I don’t think so. My partner is a VJ also and she doesn’t have the same behaviour. Although our venue is small, running it is not cheap, neither is the cost of running the equipment. However, I am still happy to share the equipment with other artists who can’t get deck time anywhere else (as I remember my own struggle when I started DJing).

On that note, I ask you to remove your unkind comments from this site. How easy is it for me and anyone else to leave nasty comments on your online profiles? Or start forums about your behaviour and upload tons of insult? But surely the vision of this VJ community is not to launch a campaign of unfair personal insults?

If you want to criticize me in the future, sit down with me and say it to my face. If you can convince me, maybe I can improve something. And who knows maybe you learn something in the process too. Direct and honest communication is the key to a more positive life. I leave you with Gandhi's famous quote: "You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist."
On that note, I ask you to remove your unkind comments from this site. How easy is it for me and anyone else to leave nasty comments on your online profiles? Or start forums about your behaviour and upload tons of insult? But surely the vision of this VJ community is not to launch a campaign of unfair personal insults?


Welcome Aria

I'm happy to see other point of view for the whole case, however I will not remove any content from this site unless his author asks me for that.

Rather than insulting each other I hope that you guys will make some kind of agreement, because truth is always in middle point. You don't have to use public forum for that, but It would be nice to see big hug finally.

So far your approach towards VJ's & DJ's is odd not only for George and Nebulus - some guys feel strange straight forward after your gumtree adv:

http://vjforums.com/showthread.php?p=226388#post226388

From my point of view I'm going out after your question about offending content, even if i'm not playing this kind which you mention.
George, Lets see if I get this right: We welcomed you to our bar on an open deck night, invited you to our Sat party, offered you to stay as long as you wished, made it clear that there was no budget for a VJ and asked you at least 3 times if you were happy to stay, and you confirmed “yes”. I even treated you to a free drink.

In return you write pages of accusations, twisted facts, unkind comments and insults, and you are actually upset why I didn’t fill your pocket with cash, and why I didn’t disclose my company’s financial information and how much I pay my staff so you could publish it on the internet?!? We didn’t run a job fair, you attended an “Open Deck” night!!! Even on Sat you made several substantial errors with your visuals, but we tolerated it because we didn’t want to discourage Liz playing her first gig.

The vision behind our bar is not about making you rich my friend. I love playing electro tunes, and my partner loves doing visuals. We set the place up so we can share that experience with others. The reason we started the open deck nights on Wednesdays, was to give other artists also a chance to come and play on a decent system. By the sound of it, that vision already worked for your friend Liz as she played to a crowd on Saturday for the first time! We didn’t cancel a mystery artist, my partner was supposed to VJ that night, but she agreed to step down and give you guys a chance. Seems the kindness has backfired!

The alleged Ł50 offer was initiated by yourself, when you asked me: “if we return the next time and do a night here, will you pay us Ł50?”! Otherwise we don’t really need to hire DJs and VJs as we are a small venue without a door charge, and my partner and I can do our own music and visuals.

In how many venues can you enter with your laptop and have free access to play with the equipment like we do on our open deck nights?

In how many venues can you actually talk to the owner? And now I can see why other owners don’t talk to artists perhaps because they don’t want to deal with hassles like this. If you recall, I held several conversations with you on Sat, and I even stepped out of the bar in the middle of our closing procedure at 3.30 am to speak to you. If I hadn’t shown that courtesy to you, then you could not have twisted my words and posted any of these nonsense.

So what should I do? Assume that your behaviour is representative of the whole VJ community? Cancel the open deck nights and close my doors to all VJs? I don’t think so. My partner is a VJ also and she doesn’t have the same behaviour. Although our venue is small, running it is not cheap, neither is the cost of running the equipment. However, I am still happy to share the equipment with other artists who can’t get deck time anywhere else (as I remember my own struggle when I started DJing).

On that note, I ask you to remove your unkind comments from this site. How easy is it for me and anyone else to leave nasty comments on your online profiles? Or start forums about your behaviour and upload tons of insult? But surely the vision of this VJ community is not to launch a campaign of unfair personal insults?

If you want to criticize me in the future, sit down with me and say it to my face. If you can convince me, maybe I can improve something. And who knows maybe you learn something in the process too. Direct and honest communication is the key to a more positive life. I leave you with Gandhi's famous quote: "You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist."


I'm gobsmacked.

I maintain that my report, whilst harsh, is honest and accurate (insofar as I have not intentionally made any false claims or statements - I will gladly correct any errors), and stake my reputation as a VJ and decent human being on it.

I appreciate that Aria has a new business and that an unfavorable review is never welcome. I will contact him by email and ask him to reconsider his response, offering an opportunity to de-escalate the hostility and turn some bad PR into something positive by dealing properly with the complaint.

Edit: Additionally, I will give a fair and favorable positive review based on the outcome. It is in the interests of both the management and artists (as well as the venue's guests) to find a fair and happy meeting point for the venue to be properly utilised and improve the profile of the digital / VJ arts. I didn't have any problems with Aria's partner (a VJ herself), in fact quite the opposite, which is why I maintain some hope in this being resolved.

-spxl
[quote="subpixel"]If you don't want to heed the warning, that is your option.


I have no intention of taking him up on the 'offer'. I was just a little confused as I heard that this was a shit place to VJ as the owner was an arse and wanted to find out more of the reason why on these forums.

It sounds like a lot of this could have been avoided if there was some communication beforehand. Were you VJing early(9-12) or late(12-3)?

Lets presume early? Simply stating that cannot play past 12 beforehand e.g. you might have another gig lined up for later and you have to leave at 12 I do not consider unprofessional.

I know it is common for VJs to be press ganged into to doing more, cheaper, etc sometimes it is better to just say no.

Now about the pay, did you really think it would be a lot? I think I know the size of the venue from the descriptions here and I think walked past it on Saturday lunchtime (not knowing anything about this being a venue for VJs).

I don't know if there was much of/any door entry. But they cannot be making much.

I would immediate look at size of the venue and know they cannot afford me. You may get a token payment like was offered eventually but for a long term engagement it is not likely to be a moneyspinner. I am surprised anyone would think it is. Seriously what did you expect as payment in a small bar? Please let me know I am curious.

Those that know me know I am firm supporter of VJs being paid properly but it has to logical to the venue. A more realistic is the amount of people you are playing to as the venue/night will get more takings, obviously overheads are higher but they can afford more. I always like to see some sort of formula like a small percentage of the potential door take as a basis of a fee. I think this is more realistic. And that doesn't add up for small bars as a small percentage take on a tiny amount is not very much.

Anyway the owner sounded like an idiot and the only thing I did like is the fact that he noticed your mistake/glitches it at least shows something of an interest in visuals. Most owners/promoters wouldn't give a shit.


...so let he use dvd instead, if he know exactly what he want and what's offensive and what's not. I don't play offensive content at all, but I don't like censorship, especially when I'm suppose to do somebody a favour. According to Subpixel description this club looks like a typical commercial venue, so: bring your gear, play your visuals, but only eyecandies to make our fancy-fashion-dressed-clients happy, have your two drinks and get lost, next one from gumtree please... however I haven't been there - I'm not convinced so far.


One thing I think that lets VJs down in general is the lack of censorship. I have been to venues where promoters have had legitimate concerns about what I will play as the last 'VJ' started putting up porn in the shows and he had complaints and therefore he didn't want to employ any VJs.

As a punter I don't want to see offensive content.

Personally I have been offended at visuals of people being killed, disasters, terrorist acts, etc being played.

I don't like it when VJs see any screen time as they own party political broadcast.

I am sure many gigs have been lost long term because promoters do not want VJs now as a VJ in the past played offensive/controversial content.

You are there to work with the venue paid or not.
To be professional about it if your content does contain potential offensive material e.g. nudity, violence, etc explain this beforehand to the promoter. Show them sample clips, etc.

This way there is no confusion.[/quote]



Seems to be a bit of an argument over what does or doesn't constitute "offensive" content.
What is offensive to one is not always offensive to another; That said, I will not use content that is: racist, sexist, or homophobic; And I get upset if I see such stuff being used, in the same way as I get offended by hearing racist, sexist or homophobic lyrics in music; However, sex and nudity per se are not offensive - it's context that matters. i won't show pornography because it degrades all who take part, women in particular, but also the men are degraded by their participation.
Images of death, again it's context, wanton acts of violence as per video-game style; no; Images of death and pain and hardship caused by war and poverty, of course I will show; surely it's the duty of art to educate, shock, make people question.

When I do a show, it's my content, my work, my take on the world that is being expressed;

Would you employ Picasso, and tell him "just a quick coat of emulsion, pablo mate"?

tdog
i don't mind working for token payments
so long as the barman takes tokens for beer.

tdog
Drama alrite but who the hell is ZeeZee :shock:
http://www.myspace.com/zeezeevisuals
ZeeZee was an interested body who came to one of the VJlondon meetings, saying she was interested in becoming a VJ, about a week before the story here.

-spxl
more of zee then :)
I zinck zat's more zan enough of zat!