Advertising

VJlondon.com is advertising other people's nights in the bannerspace now???!! What next... 888.com adverts?

WTF - did money change hands for this? Fellatio? What?

= Not cool.

this one has flame potential :twisted:

I appriciate that you wrote your concerns in public. Just to clarify:

I didn't receive any money for anything which I have done so far related to vjlondon.org.

I don't know what the "other people's nights" does really mean, could you please explain it further? I'm up to promote every vj-related party in London, because I'm more interested in VJing, than personal "likes" or "dislikes"...

To be honest, I asked for banner myself, because in my opinion last AVSocial was really good event and it's one of the most recognizable cyclic London's event related to VJing - actually only one so far. If you are up to change this state then I would like to promote your event. Beside of banner space I could offer you also a hosting of mini site. I'm not into fellatio with guys, sorry :wink:

Hm OK well i guess thats your prerogative as the person who runs the site (please dont get me wrong i have the utmost respect for you for having put it together) i just have a passionate dislike for obtrusive advertising on websites, and i didnt expect it from within the 'community'. There seems to be a perfectly good subforum for London Events which suits everyone quite well and i had enjoyed seeing the bannerspac used for people's photos/artwork without the need for advertising. Just bringing up the issue as soon as it arises as opposed to leaving it to get further down the line.

Well thats enough from me ive said my bit. If anyone else wishes to express an opinion either way, please do.

J

I would be happy to hear what are "other people's" ;) opinions about that issue. Is this kind of "advertisment" obtrusive for you? Do you think it's needed?

I agree a bit w/ both of you - mr. neon and mr. meno.

For the advertisement of (VJ related) events
there is the events thread in this forum.

If there is the need for more exposed advertisement,
I think it is very important,
that there is a clear spatial separation between the art and the ads.

Advertising VJ related events,
esp. those that gather more than one artist or
those that are specially dedicated to vjing and live visual performance art,
is very important to raise the awareness of the masses for our "activities".

So the question is,
is it enough to post an event inside the forum thread,
because all the VJs are interested anyway and will read it or
are there enough non-VJ visitors,
who drop in on a forum like that occasionally
to justify dedicated and exposed advertisement space on the pages.

Cheers,
rolin

Personally I see nothing wrong with advertising events which are clearly of a visual nature. Actually I've just realised that we haven't done one for Sound on Vision...I'll see If I can get the time to do one fast.

i've already mentioned my surprise to neon at the last meeting. in some ways if money had changed hands i would find it easier to understand.

in the mean time i'll put it down to neons ambitions to get a vj slot at the next av social :wink:

heh, I totally don't understand this position - so if I will earn money for advertising banner then everything is allright, everyone is happy, If I will not not then it means it's suspicious?

Sounds little bit ridicolous to me.

Only goal at the moment which I want to achieve is to promote vjlondon.org beside of london's vj community site also as the source of information related to vj&visual events. Not all of them are listed here at the moment, most of them not. That's why I wrote the "info" bot which is grabbing the information from external sources, and that's everything behind the idea of advertising banners. A lot of people is registered there, but only a small part of them returns after some time. I think providing reliable information about what's going on around the city is a good way to attract them.

Mayby I shouldn't write that, but I have strange feeling that this issue is raised here, because the event promoted here will be done by "some other people" whatever that means. I wonder if that suppose to happen if this will be "sound on vision" banner (which i'm still waiting for, btw), instead of AVSocial...

What's wrong with that I want to promote some events for free? I still don't clearly understand that, but anyway so far is 2:1 againt advertisment. I will make some serious updates to forum mechanism in the next week, so if most of the users are against there will be no more "advertisment" banners. Because of all those concerns, mayby it will be better to clarify some "rules" regarding to this:

- everyone has possiblity to put banner for free, but event needs to be more vj-related than just typical club party with 1-3 vjs.
- event promoted on banner has to have VJlondon.org logo on press materials
- banner will be visible in a rotating system not longer than one week.

let me know if this make a sense

in the mean time i'll put it down to neons ambitions to get a vj slot at the next av social Wink

yeah, you got me. Beside of AVSocial I just send my wonderfull offer of free banners also to Ars Electronica guys and Transmediale crew, pls keep fingers crossed :wink:

my ten pence:

free banner advertising for free/un-sponsored events.
paid ads for paid/sponsored events or they go in the events section

ads should be 30% or less of the banner...

otherwise things can easily get messy.
This AV social falls into the latter category, so it belongs in the events section, not on the banner.

anyway, its such a small issue in a small forum..
no need to make a fuss either way....

What will we all do without fuss though?
Come on we're vj's we like fuss!

...so far still not enough fuss :wink:

any other complains // delight?

seriously guys, tell me what you are up to about that

I just received banner from Mowgli related to Sound on Vision, so far nobody convinced me really to get rid of that idea so I put it also to the mechanism. This one will be live only till monday. Yeah, probably I'm looking for spot on the next one edition :lol:

Please give me one clear reason what's wrong with advertising strictly VJevents for free - from my point of view bigger knowledge about VJing is better for everyone... I don't think that there is better place to checkout what is all about then attending to good vj-event

what's another idea which mayby solve the issue for some part people is:

- event banners only in the events category?

regarding to last Gary post:

I'm not happy with involving any money in VJlondon.org.

I'm not happy with involving any money in VJlondon.org.

But it's fine to try and bribe a spot at a festival by offering the organisers advertising space in the banner of the site??!! nuh-uh-uh!!

VJ related events are there to make money and/or to act as a branding opportunity for itself or to others. Advertising said nights in a banner assists the organisers to either make money or futher establish whatever brand is being pushed.

I did come to this forum to be part of a dedicated space for Visuals enthusiasts in an around london, in order than we might get more done on a local level.
I did not come here to be a target demographic.

[quote="neon"]
I'm not happy with involving any money in VJlondon.org.

But it's fine to try and bribe a spot at a festival by offering the organisers advertising space in the banner of the site??!! nuh-uh-uh!!
[/quote]

o rly? :lol:

...what else one banner on really small and niche forum could make happen? So far: fellatio, tremendous (because unspecified) amount of money, warm place in timetable on AVSocial, warm place on Sound on Vision... Brillant, I hope that for next banner I will buy fancy car, for the next one I make my holidays on Jamaica, and for next one... who knows? probably I will own all of your money, fame, chicks, whatever...

VJ related events are there to make money and/or to act as a branding opportunity for itself or to others. Advertising said nights in a banner assists the organisers to either make money or futher establish whatever brand is being pushed.

Money, brand... what else? Is so-called VJ-bussiness everything what you keep in mind?

I have been to some VJ-related festivals (contacteurope, avit berlin, lpm) which were really inspiring and besides that lot of fun, because of their atmosphere and people who were there... and guess what... nobody tells nothing about the money. How it's possible regarding to your vision?

I think the biggest problem is why we are missing our points is because you are looking for VJing through the [money] filter. My filter states [hobby] and [inspiration] and [fun]... I don't have this pressure that I have to be somewhere, because I do other things for living - as simply as that.

I did come to this forum to be part of a dedicated space for Visuals enthusiasts in an around london, in order than we might get more done on a local level.

I think supporting and promoting local events is exactly what fits in.

I did not come here to be a target demographic.

especially for you after weekend I will make them invisible for your account and IP, hope it will make you happy. Someone else who is so annoyed with them please write me priv message and I will add you to the "blacklist" ;)

I decided that banners will stay, but in other form and with clear rules. I think this feature is needed for further forum development.

Anyway thanks Meno for your concerns - I realised some issues, and my biggest fault was to introduce banners without announcement.

I've only dug my heels in on this becuase i know nobody else is going to.

Im not doubting your good intentions neon, (and dont take this as a personal attack on you), i just disagree with arbitrarily advertinsing other nights (or almost anything for that matter) in the bannerspace. I fail to see where the line will be drawn between those which are allowed up (av social, SOV) and those which wont. IF MOS come along and ask for a banner for one of their nights will you say yes? That makes no sense.

I think deepvisuals' distinction is a fairly good one. But that means (as i take it) that even Sound on vision is a paying event and therefore has no reason to be receiving free bannerspace.

given the choice between sex and advertising, I know which I'd prefer...
can we have more nudity please????

free banner advertising for free/un-sponsored events.
paid ads for paid/sponsored events or they go in the events section

This AV social falls into the latter category, so it belongs in the events section, not on the banner.

upcoming AV Social is free,
so was the one at Tate Britain,
so will November's one in Tate Liverpool

ok just to clear the air,
I should say a bit more...

Neon approached me about the banner,
not the other way around.

personally I think the idea is good to put a reminder up somewhere
about london based grassroot vj related events
similarly to the line in the corner for the VJ meetups.

bur I admit the first time I saw the AV Social banner up
I was a little uneasy especially to see it replace the VJlondon ident

so I agree that until the balance is right between
showing support for VJ related events
and keeping a strong forum identity
banners like mine should be rethought.

hope this hasnt discouraged anybody from coming down to AV Social this coming Friday :?

like i said, Olli, its a small small issue.
I think its good to be informed of events.

My two cents (that's less than 1p in this country's blasted currency!)...

The best reason I can think someone might object to a banner ad is if they have some personal conflict with someone involved in said event and it makes their blood boil even to hear their name. That is not an invitation to flame, just an observation.

My second point (or cent) is that it really shouldn't be a problem until there are more than a small number of competing events on a single night (or perhaps weekend).

Ultimately, the best solution is to have an events calendar instead of an events forum (which is prone to people bumping entries to the top, out of calendar order, etc), where people can post their events to their blessed VJ hearts' content, they will always be displayed in order and with equal weighting to all other events (again, unless there is some large-ish number on a single day, then perhaps some sort of rating system might be needed... a long way off methinks). A sidebar/banner/whatever of a few coming-up (and/or perhaps major) events (on some sort of rotation if need be) should not be such a burning hole in your eyes. (Unless of course you fall into the category of point 1, in which case you might try some anger management course or meditiation).

Unless the forum software (phpBB) has such a calendar built-in, or some other calendar can run alongside phpBB without too much fuss, I don't think it's fair to ask for it unless you can do the implementation.. and I don't know if neon is likely to be too trusting with letting people have admin over his site!

-spxl.

Edit: (I didn't see the second page until after posting...) I didn't actually see the AV social banner, but from the description it sems that it took up the entire banner space. I agree that is probably not appropriate, but I maintain that some portion of the "banner space" (a completely fictional space... it's all in your head!) could be used to promote/mention upcoming events, a la the next VJ meetup header.

I'd like to add that Sound on Vision was free all night in the end and will be free for a while.

I couldn't make it..
review? fotos? gossip?

Ultimately, the best solution is to have an events calendar instead of an events forum (which is prone to people bumping entries to the top, out of calendar order, etc), where people can post their events to their blessed VJ hearts' content, they will always be displayed in order and with equal weighting to all other events (again, unless there is some large-ish number on a single day, then perhaps some sort of rating system might be needed... a long way off methinks). A sidebar/banner/whatever of a few coming-up (and/or perhaps major) events (on some sort of rotation if need be) should not be such a burning hole in your eyes. (Unless of course you fall into the category of point 1, in which case you might try some anger management course or meditiation).

Unless the forum software (phpBB) has such a calendar built-in, or some other calendar can run alongside phpBB without too much fuss, I don't think it's fair to ask for it unless you can do the implementation.. and I don't know if neon is likely to be too trusting with letting people have admin over his site!

Event-calendar functionality will come shortly (hopefully before end-of-the-week).
Advertisment will stay, but in other form.

Yay verily. :o)

On the subject of calendars... I saw advent calendars in the supermarket last night. Is it Christmas time already in London?